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 freezer12
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Season Review |
Lead | ||
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Posts: 362 03/24/08 17:40:59 |
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bronco66 |
and White Guys can Jump | #1 | ||
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Posts: 1051 03/24/08 18:25:51 Moderator |
at least this BIG white guy ....
making it HARD to go around 
and teaming up with the MAN from Down Under ....
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gobroncs |
my season review and a great year-end reveiew from Yahoo sports | #2 | ||
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Posts: 185 03/25/08 13:11:10 |
Bryant - great season. I hope he loses some weight next year so he can really dominate. could be one of or even the top center in the west perhaps? that may
be overreaching but great season regardless.
Angley - great season. I had thought he'd plateau and he did not. Where would we have been without him? Johnson - solid year. shot better. turned into just a pure outside shooter. will play more next season. Gunderson - proved he's a D1 player. some potential. will play more next year. Dowdell - good all around game and toughness. improved as season went on. potential impact player. Henke - had a good career. seems like a good kid. good luck in investment banking. Higgins - kid never got much of an opportunity in his career but seemed to look good if slow in his chances. Mbanugo - see Higgins. Tiedeman - looked overmatched. Latimer - still not proven. Zimmerman - looked like he'll be solid. White - redshirt can play starting late December is supposedly the best player on the team. Thompson - fingers crossed. Next year's recruiting class - pray they are good, especially the guards. Keating - did better than I expected. The team played hard and solid. Recruiting looks good so far. It looks apparent he can coach as there didn't seem to be much if any X and O dropoff from Davey, who was very good in this department. Team looked motivated. Takes some blame for so many close losses, though lack of go-to options at crunch time was main cause. Program - seemed to have more live this year. Here is a far more professional review. I agree with all of it: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news;_ylt=AqoHdBobsrei.up2bKDl1rDM07YF?slug=teamreports-2008-ncaab-sai&prov=sportsxchange&type=team_report Final stats: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/teams/sai/stats;_ylt=AvsVSWt8mpim1qPGTA.VbQbM07YF |
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BBEx |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 37 03/25/08 15:42:58 |
Not to stir this up again, but I just don't get why a coach that gets paid $300,000/year gets a pass. This was the worst year RPI-wise
since 2003 for Santa Clara.
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BroncoFan |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 83 03/25/08 17:38:50 |
BBEx wrote: Why did you even bother to preface your reply with the language I quoted above? I thought the Yahoo summary was pretty spot on. [shrug] |
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Bronco55 |
Re: Season Review | #5 | ||
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Posts: 3 03/25/08 21:15:45 |
I agree that Coach Keating did as good of a job as could have been expected given that he was dealt a near-empty closet of talent. Aside from Bryant, and
possibly Angly, the other players likely would have been bench players for the league's top teams. The fact that Santa Clara was in so many close games is
testament to quality coaching and good effort by the players. To me, it's an indication that we were playing above our talent level. The home loss to
Gonzaga was a total fluke.
Although I agree that Coach Davey did a good job with x's and o's, the once-prominent Santa Clara basketball program gradually deteriorated to that of an also-ran. This happened over a 10 year period. It's noteworthy that the only capacity home crowds would occur when fans would come to see Gonzaga play. Quite frankly, I wondered why we simply didn't join the Pac West Conference (Notre Dame de Namurs, Hawaii Pacific, et al) where we could be a model for student-athletes, but could also be above competitive mediocrity. If we're going to play with the major schools, then we have to recruit with the big boys. When is the last time that Santa Clara attracted a heavily recruited player. Do we really have less to offer than the other schools? Coach Keating appears to be in the process of turning this around. At least four of the new players for the 2008-9 season had high school scoring averages of over 20 points per game. I think it'll take at least 3 years to bring Santa Clara to parity with Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and now San Diego. Our coach is not overpaid for the challenging job of resuscitating the recruiting. All this does not imply lowering academic standards or providing inadequate attention to our student-athletes. It does imply improved school spirit and the excitement of Santa Clara basketball. We all know that Dan Fitzgerald revived the Gonzaga program. But let's take a look at nearby Stanford. Dr. Tom Davis left as Stanford coach because he couldn't influence the rigid entrance requirements. It took Mike Montgomery to come in and show that the program could be successful - even with entry requirements more rigid than those of Santa Clara. Now there's a waiting list for season tickets at Maples Pavilion. Wouldn't it be great if Coach Keating could create a similar level of excitement for Santa Clara basketball. I've never met the man, but based on what AD Noonan had to say about him, I think we're lucky to have Kerry Keating as our coach and owe him 100% support. And he's NOT overpaid for what he's asked to do! Wouldn't it be great if the counter-productive sniping about our coach were to cease until he has had time to establish his imprint on the program? Wouldn't it be nice if competitive mediocrity became a thing of the past? Wouldn't it be terrific to be invited to the Big Dance? It happened while I attended Santa Clara. It can happen again. |
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SCU85 |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 152 03/26/08 08:58:59 |
55,
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DenverBronco1 |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 3 03/26/08 10:55:26 |
85,
You don't have to look far to find suggestions that Keating is overpaid- just scan this thread for bolded text. And that is not the first time it has been suggested (Chuck Hildebrand has made reference to Keating's salary as well). Reading 55's post, I don't see any "pot-shots" against Davey. Rather, a recognition of Davey's mediocrity at SCU. Given the following facts about Davey's career at SCU, I think it's reasonable to call it mediocre: The average season-ending RPI for Davey's teams during his last 10 years at SCU: 143. There are ~300 Div. I NCAA basketball programs, so I'm not sure whats more mediocre than that- unless you want to look at Davey's career winning percentage at SCU: just over 50% (0.569). What I find disappointing about all of the Davey defenders jumping to criticize Keating (after ONE season) is that it is almost as though they want SCU/Keating to fail so they can justify that firing Davey was a mistake. I personally liked Davey but was also hoping SCU would take a risk and make a change in the interest of improving SCU bball. Time will tell of the risk results in good or bad outcomes for the program. It seems to me that true fans of SCU basketball should be able to agree that Davey was a decent coach and an honorable man.....get over that he was fired....and root for SCU hoops and the new coach. |
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BBEx |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 38 03/26/08 14:10:09 |
DenverBronco: I watched every SCU game I could this year. I'm still a fan and don't want to see them fail. I just like stirring things up on this board
because -- like 85 referenced -- my only complaint is not with Keating, but with the fact that Coach Davey was never given the opportunity to operate with the
salary and budget that have been provided to the current staff. What could he have done with greater resources? With support from the highest levels of the
Univ Admin? Its truly amazing that DD & SCU was 2nd in wins (both overall and in conference play) only to Gonzaga during his tenure. No other WCC performed
better during DD's reign, except for Gonzaga.
So until Keating actually wins some games he shouldn't (12 of his 13 D-I wins this year were over teams rated 200+ in the RPI) and until Keating delivers some of the big-time recruits he's known for and until Keating goes to at least 3 NCAA Tournament (and advances to the 2nd round twice) -- until all of that happens, I will keep taking shots at him on this board. Oh, by the way, Ben Braun at Cal just got fired: http://www.mercurynews.com/sportsheadlines/ci_8705626?nclick_check=1 |
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SCU85 |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 153 03/26/08 14:37:46 |
Denverbronco:
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JustPlainSmith |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 144 03/26/08 15:52:37 |
BBEx wrote: This was the worst year RPI-wise since 2003 for Santa Clara. And who recruited the kids that played these games? Who made this schedule? And sure, fire back that DD might have won one or two of the close games but that's no guarantee ... BBEx wrote: I guess you also consider that that is $300K well spent by Filizetti, Sobrato and Locatelli. I continue to laugh at the concern by others for who gets paid what and who pays it. If you are concerned about the $ 300,000 (if that is an accurate number) perhaps you should complain about the $ 550,000 paid by SCU and its donors for scholarships for the men's basketball program, which at least half of it went to players that are not D1 caliber players. Again, who recruited these players? The sniping really needs to go away, the DD supporters will always feel slighted but do remember that DD was going to
retire eventually, perhaps last year, perhaps this year and quite frankly, last year was a lot better year to go out on then this year.
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rawhide8 |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 10 03/26/08 16:25:34 |
SCU 85
Get with the times; mens basketball is a big revenue sport for a lot of schools and at SCU it was/is not. All one had to do was go to a game versus anybody but Gonzaga and see the place half empty. No one can take away that Davey is a great human being but excuse us if we want our basketball team to win some games and make the tourney more than once every 15 or so years. Davey was not they guy to do that; SCU needed some fresh blood inserted into the program; there was no way Davey was going to have a full time video coordinator or academic assistant added to the staff. DD was very old school; all one has to do is read some of the quotes from Henke this year to know what I am talking about. Heck our scouting reports were written on paper, I can guarantee that high major programs do not do this. SCU needed to get with the times there is no reason why SCU can not do what St Marys and Gonzaga did this year. California alone has enough talent in the area for a good recuriter like Keating to take this program to the next level. As sad as it was to see Davey go it had to be done for the sake of the program going to the next level; othwerwise we would have been stuck in mediocrity like we have been for the last 15 years. For those of who are ready to say we were mediocre this year; look at who DD left for Keating; hell one could make an argument USF had more talent on their roster then we did and thats pathetic. |
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broncolaw |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 66 03/26/08 16:53:10 |
DD's supporters keep saying, "what if DD had the salary that KK does," but I don't see what a coach's salary has to do with his or her
performance, unless those DD supporters are somehow saying that DD would have been more motivated to win/recruit had he been paid a larger salary,
which I do not believe they are saying. I definitely agree that things would have been different if DD had been given the resources that KK now enjoys, but
it's such a large "what if" that it's pointless to speculate any further.
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DenverBronco1 |
#13 | |||
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Posts: 4 03/26/08 17:44:18 |
SCU85 wrote: Perhaps if Davey were coaching a middle-school girls' soccer team, we could call his results "great" as he was liked by his players, was a coach with character, etc. However, at the collegiate level of athletics, the bottom line is if you win or lose....so I'm not sure what better criteria by which to evaluate a college basketball coach than by his wins, losses, and RPI. I'm not saying character and honesty do not matter, but I am saying that to be an "outstanding" or "great" or even "successful" coach at the collegiate level, winning is required. |
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SCU85 |
#14 | |||
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Posts: 154 03/27/08 07:52:17 |
Denverbronco,
Here is a link to the SCU Athletics Mission statement
http://santaclarabroncos.cstv.com/genrel/013002aaa.html
Nowhere does it mention won-loss record or RPI as a way to evaluate the coach. I'm not an idiot so I do understand the importance of winning and I want our teams to win. I just don't think Davey was given a fair chance to compete. I think it's appropriate that you use the example of the Middle School Girls Soccer team because I think anyone with a middle school education or higher would look at the disparity in budget Davey had in relation to his competition and say, "he's a pretty dam good coach". Of course, some people have made the point that he was a horrible coach because he didn't use PowerPoint presentations for his scouting reports. I mean come on Davey!!! Get with the times, how can you expect kids to learn if they have to read a handwritten scouting report?
Last Edited By: SCU85 03/27/08 08:40:30.
Edited 1 time.
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BBEx |
#15 | |||
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Posts: 39 03/27/08 09:54:37 |
broncolaw: when I reference the salary of Keating, I'm referring to the big picture of ALL the resources that Keating has been given, not simply the fact
that he is being paid double what Davey was.
The resources that Keating has that Davey didn't: -- Larger recruiting budget, meaning he can now see/visit in person with hundreds more kids than DD and his staff could; -- Salary for a 3rd assistant coach, meaning Keating doesn't have to worry about how he's going to pay his staff like DD did; instead he can focus on coaching or using that money that he fundraised for for a different purpose to benefit the program; -- full-time strength coach -- full-time academic support person, so the coaches don't have to help the players with homework |
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rawhide8 |
#16 | |||
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Posts: 11 03/27/08 10:40:03 |
For those of you citing RPI as a tool to cite Daveys track record stop wasting your time, this is the same tool that jumped Kentucky 10 plus positions after
they lost by forty to Vanderbilt. Your right 85 scouting reports don't help the boys out. I have personally seen Daveys report 2 years ago for Gonzaga from
DD and saw this years from KK, to say the least KK is more detailed. This is just one example of more that our boys were at a distinct disadvantage because of
our lack of progressing with the times. If DD was as great as a coach as you say he was then he should have been all over the administration to get a strength
and conditioning coach or an academic advisor. Instead these ideas were not thrown to them until KK got here, I am sorry to hurt the feelings of DD's
supporters but if you take off those DD colored glasses you will see that SCU needed a change in the worst way to get this program to where it should be.
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SCU85 |
#17 | |||
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Posts: 155 03/27/08 13:21:54 |
Rawhide
Last Edited By: SCU85 03/27/08 13:32:25.
Edited 1 time.
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freezer12 |
Re: Season Review | #18 | ||
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Posts: 363 03/27/08 15:35:37 |
First of all, I do not want to get in the middle of this back and forth banter. I've expressed my opinion in the past, so I will not do it now. However,
85, you say that the Mission Statement does not say that a coach will be judged by Ws and Ls. You are terribly wrong. To quote directly, "The Santa Clara
Athletics program will field first-rate men's and women's intercollegiate athletics teams that are competitive within
their Conference and the region, and strive to be competitive nationally. The programs will bring honor, distinction
and greater national awareness to the University, which will not only complement but enhance its national image and prestige."A simple question for
you, how is national awareness achieved in sports? If your answer is anything but wins and losses, you're lying to yourself.
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rawhide8 |
#19 | |||
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Posts: 12 03/27/08 16:20:23 |
Dior Lowhorn was the best talent on the floor every night he played besides when he was matched up with the Zags and Manny Quesda (sp) was as good as a guard
as Brody but does that mean he had the heart of Brody or played as hard as Brody no. If you think otherwise well then I know all I need to know about your
evaluations of a player and coaching. Talent is a different thing than wins a lot of talented teams dont win jack for various reasons.
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SCU85 |
#20 | |||
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Posts: 156 03/28/08 10:44:50 |
Freezer,
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